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X/Y Changes to Stealth Rock



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44 replies to this topic

#1  Share
Wiiman104

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I was reading a wonderful little topic on /vp/ about how Stealth Rock makes the metgame boring by making plenty of pokemon typings effectively useless in a competitive state (fire, flying, bug, ice). None of these pokemon types have fantastic defenses, so after the initial 25%-50% (poor charizard) health reduction, they have little chance to survive the first enemy attack. 

 

How do we make the effects of stealth rock less substantial? How do we nerf it without making it absolutely useless? I found two posts on /vp/ that make a lot of sense: they allow other weather types to be more effective while nerfing stealth rock.

 

 

If they wanted to make a spikes variant that could punish flying types, they really should have made it ice type with relatively low distribution, and have it melt after 5 turns, after 3 turns if it's sunny, and they don't melt if it's hailing. That way, ice types would at least see more use, but since ice types are usually pretty frail, once they're done with, the threat is taken care of.

 

 

 

This is actually a brilliant idea.
Stealth rock would be less broken if lasted 5 turns, but in rain it lasted 3 turns and in sandstorm it doesn't go away. Bam. Hail and Sandstorm are now viable.

 

 

What's your opinion? How would you change stealth rock? A simple damage nerf, or something completely different?


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#2  Share
Terranort

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I just want to be able to use the Charizard on my team in peace.

#3  Share
sammyringo2006

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I would like more types also. I wonder what fairy attacks are?



#4  Share
Aero

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Ability giving immunity to rocks.



#5  Share
Nemesis

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I actually just had a discussion with somebody about this in which we decided SR should only last 3-5 turns.

So yeah, I agree for the most part. I don't think giving weather even more utility is the right answer but it's neat nonetheless. y;

Hail and Sandstorm are now viable


like what lol

Edited by Necro, Sep 9 2013, 12:59 PM


#6  Share
Enjay

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Or make it so rock/steel/ground pokemon remove stealth rock, like poision types do to toxic spikes.

That's the big problem, you almost have to have a rapid spinner switch in AND use a skill just to allow you to safely use an ice/fire/flying type.

There's a lot of solutions, but it's hard to tell how big of an impact they'll have. The "meta" is going to gravitate toward what is most effective, if stealth rock becomes less op, something else will probably pop up that becomes the new flavor.

We'll see what Nintendo does, if anything. I do hope they do SOMETHING to it though, I love Houndoom, but I never use him because it's too much trouble trying to set him up with nasty plot even in UU :V

Ice stealth rock would be neat, but it'd obliterate a lot of the most "popular" pokemon.

#7  Share
Aero

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I feel like Nintendo only went half way in with hazards. Why are there only 3? xD


Edited by Aero, Sep 9 2013, 01:31 PM


#8  Share
PlumberYuki  

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- Attacks (Like Whirlwind) gain the ability to break hazards
- Hazards automatically break after x turns

there you go, your charizard is now 100% more viable and less likely to get raped in a turn

#9  Share
Nemesis

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- Hazards automatically break after x turns


I think Spikes should vanish after a certain number of triggers.

Edited by Necro, Sep 9 2013, 02:42 PM


#10  Share
Aero

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- Hazards automatically break after x turns

I think Spikes should vanish after a certain number of triggers.

We shouldn't make hazards useless guys. They make battles interesting. Temporary is useless, rain dance, sunny day, sandstorm, lucky chant, tailwind..the list goes on.



#11  Share
Knights of HyruleIridium  

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We shouldn't make hazards useless guys. They make battles interesting. Temporary is useless, rain dance, sunny day, sandstorm, lucky chant, tailwind..the list goes on.

did you play gen five



#12  Share
PlumberYuki  

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Temporary is useless,


no it's not

it's so you can't just drop stealth rock first turn and then not worry about it

#13  Share
Nemesis

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did you play gen five

or any of the games with entry hazards

#14  Share
Aero

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did you play gen five

Yes I did. I'm reffering to weather moves not the abilities. Before you go off and tell me how awesome your manual UU rain team was save it. It's a chore and there are better ways to win.

 

no it's not

it's so you can't just drop stealth rock first turn and then not worry about it

rapid spin



#15  Share
Aero

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I'll admit tailwind is ok. Trick room, reflect and lightscreen are very good. That's all I can think of as far as "timed" moves.



#16  Share
Nemesis

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rapid spin

nothing stimulates interesting variety like mandating the presence of at least one spinner on every team

Edited by Necro, Sep 9 2013, 06:40 PM

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#17  Share
Enjay

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nothing stimulates interesting variety like mandating the presence of at least one spinner on every team

centralizing the metagame.

That was the reason Garchomp was ubers in Gen IV, yet stealth rock remained untouched even though it was centralizing the metagame just as much :V At least there are a large number of pokemon that can learn an ice move, there's a rather small selection of pokemon that can use rapid spin.

#18  Share
PlumberYuki  

Yuki

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make rapid spin a TM and on more pokemon and sure

or just give the effect to more moves

#19  Share
Carl321  

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I'd say that Haze/Mist should be able to wipe the field clear of not only status effects, but traps too.



#20  Share
Aero

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nothing stimulates interesting variety like mandating the presence of at least one spinner on every team

Like it's the hardest thing in the world to compose a team that resist rocks. Sure, variety would be fun but pokemon is serious business. Plus I never argued that we didn't need more ways to remove hazards, only making them have a limited duration would give them far less practicality. 

 

I'm willing to bet they will add some new hazards with different elements to them. Possibly even helpful hazards. Even hazards that you could lay on both sides of the field. How about something like ember, creating a hazard that hurts all but fire types, even healing fire types. Status hazards awakening hazards. There are so many possibilities here.

 

That said we can almost count on the introduction to a more useful way of spinning like yuki said. Maybe even a move like tornado or something that has a higher base power than 20. Can you tell I'm excited?






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