I've been wanting to make this for frickin' forever. Okay, say you're in a crew battle, you know who our opponent is gonna be, though you have know idea what's a good counter for his player. Here's da place. Add what you think are good counters for all these characters. When adding, don't just say "Oh yea, it seems like this guy does well against this guy", try and say why. More than one person can say something about the same player. Technically, you could post counters for all of them, but only if you have good points. I will be updating this list as I get replies:

Bowser-MetaKnight. MK can completely dominate Bowser in the air, even more so than other characters. Bowsers slow movements and laggy attacks leave him open for MK to run in and knock him around. Even if MK's Fsmash is too slow to effectively KO Bowser, he can still have him off the ledge in a second. Metaknight's superior recovery allows him to edgeguard well, and still not fear being dragged down with Bowser. whereas on the flip side, Bowser's weak recovery is open to edgeguard easily.

Captain falcon-

DK-DDD. DK's power lies in his bair for is aerial game, and, well, Dedede can easily outrange his bair, and since DK is so huge, Dedede can easily grab him and finish him with a fsmash.Dedede can infinite grab DK if timed right, and if that doesn't happen he can still be chain grabbed to hell and back before he has to stop. Also DK doesn't have much in the air on Dedede, who won't let him back on the ledge after he is knocked off. Ending a chaingrab with a forward throw gets DK off, and Dedede can keep him off with either a Bair or Fair. DK's lesser recovery just flat out gets owned. DK can space pretty good with range on his smashes, but Dedede can always hold him at bay with a Ftilt or even a Dtilt.

Diddy-

DDD-Pit. Pit's projectiles make Dedede an easy target, because he can effectively sit back and rack up the damage with his arrows. Being a quick character, he can stay out of range of Dedede's grabs, and still control the battle. The air isn't the best postition for Pit against Dedede, so if the battle is on the ground, Dedede will have trouble dealing with those quick attacks. Pit's only problems is his own lightness, so he has to be careful around Dedede's potent smashes. And Dedede being a fairly heavy character may make him harder to KO, not to mention his awesome Up B.

Fox-Game and Watch: Fox's power lies in his aerial game, which Game & Watch completely trumps, mainly because his nair can keep Fox from approaching from both sides, and Fox has a very hard time comboing him because of his uair and aaa.

Falco-

Game and Watch-

Ganondorf-Metaknight. Metaknight is an easy counter for most heavy characters, so this one isn't much different from Bowser's. Ganondorf's real power resides in smashes and his down-B for some easy damage, only decent in the air, and a pretty good recovery makes him one of the better heavy weights. He can also space the opponent decently. But Metaknight can take advantage of the slow powerhouse and be in and out for damage. His Mach Tornado and over B is an easy way to rack up the percentage without taking any of his own. His superior recovery allows him to be hit heavily by Ganondorf at a mild percentage and not fear coming back. Also, Ganondorf cannot even hope to edgeguard MK, where MK can push him back off the ledge and still easily recover.
Ice climbers-

Ike-

Jigglypuff-

Kirby-

Lucario--Sonic. Sonic may have trouble with Lucario's reach, but his speed will win it for him. He can use his down B to Uair combo to get damage, and other combos such as his Uthrow to Uair. Sonic can rack up damage pretty fast on Lucario, and Lucario's only hope is to use his faster tilts. Aura Sphere could be a problem because you can get KOed pretty easily if it connects at even a semi-high percentage. But, it moves slow so you can react quickly. If nothing else, a standing up B to a Dair gets you over it and back ready to fight. Sonic's running A is fast and long enough to hit Lucario over and over again, and leaves him open for an aerial. While Lucario's aerials are superior to Sonic, Sonic's speed on the ground will slowly but surely wear Lucario down.

Lucas-

Luigi-

Mario-

Marth-

Meta Knight-

Ness-

Olimar-

Peach-

Pikachu-

Pit-

Pokemon Trainer-

R.O.B.- Snake. Snake is a far range character, with his grenades, mines, missle laucher, and up+a. R.O.B. can't put much real damage without using his smashes/aerials, which he needs to get very close up for. A R.O.B. could just camp by using his beams and gyros, though Snake outcamps him by far.

Samus-Olimar. Olimar not only has Pikmin to absorb the blows of most of her projectiles, he also cannot easily be zair'd, and many of her attacks go above Olimar and miss him.


Snake-

Sonic-

Toon link-

Wario-

Wolf--Jigglypuff. You have to watch out for fsmash and the blaster, but if you can WoP him, you can consistantly get KOs at low %s thanks to his crap recovery.

Yoshi-

Zelda-

Fox. Fox has his neutral B which really prevents Zelda from camping him, especially on flat stages like Final Destination or Smashville. Zelda isn't much of a close in fighter, and Fox is. His speed makes a hit-and-run strategy work very well, and Din's Fire is easily dodged or shielded.
Metaknight. Metaknights speed comboed with quick and rapid attacks makes him very hard to deal with. He can keep the battle aerial, and completely own Zelda there. Even on the ground, a running A to initiate battle is devestating, because he can combo out of that, and Zelda has to react fast with probably her neutral B. If Metaknight keeps the battle up close, Zelda will have troube. His Mach Tornado works great to put up easy percentage, because she has no real way to counter it.

...

comments?

Lucario is Olimar's counter

Zelda-Fox. Fox has his neutral B which really prevents Zelda from camping him, especially on flat stages like Final Destination or Smashville. Zelda isn't much of a close in fighter, and Fox is. His speed makes a hit-and-run strategy work very well, and Din's Fire is easily dodged or shielded.

Another for Zelda-Metaknight. Metaknights speed comboed with quick and rapid attacks makes him very hard to deal with. He can keep the battle aerial, and completely own Zelda there. Even on the ground, a running A to initiate battle is devestating, because he can combo out of that, and Zelda has to react fast with probably her neutral B. If Metaknight keeps the battle up close, Zelda will have troube. His Mach Tornado works great to put up easy percentage, because she has no real way to counter it.

King Dedede-Pit. Pit's projectiles make Dedede an easy target, because he can effectively sit back and rack up the damage with his arrows. Being a quick character, he can stay out of range of Dedede's grabs, and still control the battle. The air isn't the best postition for Pit against Dedede, so if the battle is on the ground, Dedede will have trouble dealing with those quick attacks. Pit's only problems is his own lightness, so he has to be careful around Dedede's potent smashes. And Dedede being a fairly heavy character may make him harder to KO, not to mention his awesome Up B.

Yoshi is Meta Knights counter because Meta Knight can't edgeguard Yoshi.

Game & Watch > Fox

Fox's power lies in his aerial game, which Game & Watch completely trumps, mainly because his nair can keep Fox from approaching from both sides, and Fox has a very hard time comboing him because of his uair and aaa.

Olimar > Samus

Olimar not only has Pikmin to absorb the blows of most of her projectiles, he also cannot easily be zair'd, and many of her attacks go above Olimar and miss him.


Meta Knight > Ganondorf

Take a guess.

King Dedede > Donkey Kong

DK's power lies in his bair for is aerial game, and, well, Dedede can easily outrange his bair, and since DK is so huge, Dedede can easily grab him and finish him with a fsmash.

Yea, I forgot.

DK-Kind Dedede. Easily the best counter for DK, is Dedede. Dedede can infinite grab DK if timed right, and if that doesn't happen he can still be chain grabbed to hell and back before he has to stop. Also DK doesn't have much in the air on Dedede, who won't let him back on the ledge after he is knocked off. Ending a chaingrab with a forward throw gets DK off, and Dedede can keep him off with either a Bair or Fair. DK's lesser recovery just flat out gets owned. DK can space pretty good with range on his smashes, but Dedede can always hold him at bay with a Ftilt or even a Dtilt.

Here's another one;

Bowser-MetaKnight. MK can completely dominate Bowser in the air, even more so than other characters. Bowsers slow movements and laggy attacks leave him open for MK to run in and knock him around. Even if MK's Fsmash is too slow to effectively KO Bowser, he can still have him off the ledge in a second. Metaknight's superior recovery allows him to edgeguard well, and still not fear being dragged down with Bowser. whereas on the flip side, Bowser's weak recovery is open to edgeguard easily.

And one more:

Ganondorf-Metaknight. Metaknight is an easy counter for most heavy characters, so this one isn't much different from Bowser's. Ganondorf's real power resides in smashes and his down-B for some easy damage, only decent in the air, and a pretty good recovery makes him one of the better heavy weights. He can also space the opponent decently. But Metaknight can take advantage of the slow powerhouse and be in and out for damage. His Mach Tornado and over B is an easy way to rack up the percentage without taking any of his own. His superior recovery allows him to be hit heavily by Ganondorf at a mild percentage and not fear coming back. Also, Ganondorf cannot even hope to edgeguard MK, where MK can push him back off the ledge and still easily recover.

One more thing, you might want to space my Zelda counters most out, and use your second post for a half. Half on the first, and half on the second. Then you can have room for more counters. Btw, nice thread.

MK

I just remembered one more.

Lucario-Sonic. Sonic may have trouble with Lucario's reach, but his speed will win it for him. He can use his down B to Uair combo to get damage, and other combos such as his Uthrow to Uair. Sonic can rack up damage pretty fast on Lucario, and Lucario's only hope is to use his faster tilts. Aura Sphere could be a problem because you can get KOed pretty easily if it connects at even a semi-high percentage. But, it moves slow so you can react quickly. If nothing else, a standing up B to a Dair gets you over it and back ready to fight. Sonic's running A is fast and long enough to hit Lucario over and over again, and leaves him open for an aerial. While Lucario's aerials are superior to Sonic, Sonic's speed on the ground will slowly but surely wear Lucario down.

Beat you to 2 of those already.

XD

Thanks for all the additions guys.

Jigglypuff > Wolf

You have to watch out for fsmash and the blaster, but if you can WoP him, you can consistantly get KOs at low %s thanks to his crap recovery.

That said, Jiggs > anyone with **** recovery.




Also, Ganondorf and Jiggs can both outprioritize MK's *****nado. Just some food for thought.

You didn't actually post much reasoning. So I thought I'd do my own.


EDIT: Winder? When I said to seperate the two Zelda counters, I meant to put Zelda, then have one of the counters, then put the other one a space below it.

I think the biggest ICs counter is MK or Zelda. It's probably MK, even though I do worse against Zeldas due to inexperience in that match-up.

Okay guys, some additions from otha people would be appreciated, just so that nobody says "this is just three people posting and that's it"

falcos weakness is problably zelda, ill post y later

Ganondorf--KIRBY. Kirby's fast attacks, somewhat high power, better suicides, throws, projectiles, supreme edgeguarding, and ability to use the Warlock punch against Ganon essentially make him a ***** to fight for any Ganon. Kirby is fast enough to combo Ganondorf into dangerous damage, and then can easily forward smash Ganon to death. He can also chain his Bair to knock Ganon off the stage, and then spike Ganon like hell. Not to mention that Ganon has NOTHING on Kirby in the air, and Kirby's tilts can quickly interrupt any attack chain of Ganon's.

MK--Kirby?. Not so much a counter as an equilizer. Kirby's stats and playstyle is so similar to MK's, yet different enough, that both Kirby and MK work well as counters to the other. Kirby's higher power and priority help him get an early lead, but MK's speed can eliminate that quickly. Basically, they balance each other out really well if the Kirby player is good enough.

Pretty good. Can't wait till it's done.

actually Rob> Snake. Trust me on this one. Robs lazers spam n gyro hold off snake's spamming. And Rob dominates snake in the air.

MK has no counters. He pwns all. Also he really pwns ROB as he destroys ROB's aerial game, and he can juggle large ROb very easily.

Also theres a chart for charcter counters on smashboards. Check it out as its pretty accurate

MK has Snake as his only BAD matchup, but although any matchup list says otherwise, in my experience (which may or may not be accurate...) Kirby is somewhat equal to MK, not in tier, just in matchup.

MK counters nearly everyone.

i personally think ganon is a great counter for every character lol

Only Snake has a advantage on MK, everyone else is either even or beaten.

Snake having an advantage against MK is outdated. No one has an advantage on him right now.

lol

Your best bet with MK is to choose a fast character that has good power in smashes. I would say Fox, or maybe even Kirby. Even though, nothing really actually counters them.

YAY, KIRBY!!!

KIRBY, KIRBY, KIRBY, KIRBY, etc.

Yoshi does better than most thanks to his grab release chain grab, grab release to Fair (off stage) and Grab release to Usmash (on stage). He can also utilize pivot grabs and his Usmash (gives his head invincibility frames during the attack) to stop most of MK's approaches.

Either Rob, DK, Falco or Snake are considered Snake's worst matchups. D3 can give snakes a hard time also